Improving Steno 101

[stenoknight]

Steno 101 is very much a work in progress, and ideas on how to clear up confusing passages, add additional clarifying material, and enhance the lessons with examples and exercises would be extremely helpful. Topics for the next Steno 101 lessons are also welcome. The next planned lesson will be on fingerspelling alphabets, metacommands (such as capitalize-next, delete-space, etc.), and numbers (using the number bar). After that? It's up to you.

[Miguel]

This is my third post since I started with Plover. Sorry if I post it here. I suppose this will give some ideas for new Steno 101 lessons.
Learning Plover is difficult and I have dealt with that by taking small steps:
1. Alphabet,
2. 100 common words,
and my actual stepping stone
3. 200 common words.
Again, with small steps, I have practised only three words at a time. With every new word, I am also learning others that are similar. For example, "most", "mist", "fast", "twist". The 200 words only open the possibility for other words. So far the list has followed a pedagogical order, increasing in difficulty as it progresses. I will continue with that list, adding some of my own here and there that are common to me only.

The list of common words came from the game written in python "Fly, Plover". Version 1.0 available here:
https://launchpad.net/flyploverfly

In the beginning I was learning only one brief for every word, but that was not a good idea. As suggested in one of the steno 101 lessons, it is better to learn different ways of chording the words. Every new chord is a possibility for many other words.

Some misstrokes are worth pursuing in the dictionary. For example, WRONG is "wrong", but if you inadvertently type KRONG you get "correct me if I'm wrong" - very handy brief! Another strange example of misstroke happened when I was aiming for MORNG = "morning", but I typed MRNG = "Miranda warning". What is that? The first thing I thought was a reaction to an incident with Miranda Kerr's pictures seen in public Television http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vfX0yHTztNg. Then I remembered that stenography is primarily for court reporters, and that "Miranda warning" is probably some juridical jargon. I know that the dictionary becomes a personal tool to each stenographer, so in the future I will probably change MRNG to "merengue".

[Amber]

Hi Miguel,

Sounds like your progress is going along the same path that mine did.

Maybe this gives us an indication for a good teaching method for Plover?

LOL about 'Miranda warning'. Yes, this has to do with the judicial system (letting people who are arrested know what their rights are under the law, like having an attorney and not being forced to admit guilt).

Also, I like your idea of changing MRNG to 'merengue' for ploverists!

[DanLanglois]

From dict.json:

apple
A*EPL
AP/*L

apples
A*PL/-S
A*PLS
AP/-LS

And, although I had already given up, there is this, to parse:
"A*PL/KPAOURT": "Apple Computer",
"A*PL/KPAOUT/*ER": "Apple Computer",
"A*EPL/A*EPL": "Apple",
"A*PL/A*PL": "Apple",
"AP/*L/PWAOE": "Appleby",

I'm groping for the pattern, here.
Phonetically, 'apple' is two syllables:
1. 'a' as in 'pat', or in other words, 'a',
2. 'p',
--
3. The next sound is:
'a'bout, it'e'm, ed'i'ble, gall'o'p, circ'u's, or, in English, the most common vowel sound (schwa).
4. 'l'

So, why not have the steno stroke for 'apple' be, well, what would be logical here?
Syllabic: A-P/L
Phonetic: A-PL

BTW, it turns out that -PL is 'M'. Except, that -PL is not 'M'.
I mean, it is, according to lesson 2: http://plover.stenoknight.com/2010/08/s ... n-two.html.
However, in dict.json, I see this:
"-PL": "{.}",

Which, actually, is part of this:
"*FPLT": "{.}",
"-FP": "{.}",
"-FP/-RB": "{.}",
"-FP/PHOEUFP/TPHR-RB": "{.}",
"-FP/PHR-RB": "{.}",
"-FPL": "{.}",
"-FPLT/-FPLT": "{.}",
"-FPLTD": "{.}",
"-FPT": "{.}",
"-FRLT": "{.}",
"-FRP": "{.}",
"-P": "{.}",
"-PL": "{.}",
"-PLT": "{.}",
"-PS/TPHR-RB": "{.}",
"-PT": "{.}",
"2378": "{.}",
"P-FP": "{.}",
"P-FP/PHOEUFP/TPHR-RB": "{.}",
"P-PL": "{.}",
"PR*RD": "{.}",
"T-PL": "{.}",
"TH-PL": "{.}",
"TP-F": "{.}",
"TP-FPL": "{.}",
"TP-L": "{.}",
"TP-LT": "{.}",
"TP-P": "{.}",
"TP-PL": "{.}",
"TP-PL/PHOEUFP/TPHR-RB": "{.}",
"TP-PLT": "{.}",
"TPH-PL": "{.}",

Which, by the way, there's also this one:
"TPHR-FRPBLT": "{.} ",

So okay, leaving that aside, under some circumstances, -PL is 'M'. But, that's okay.
So I'm still plumping for this:
Apple:
Syllabic: A-P/L
Phonetic: A-PL

I'd kind of inferred, that one uses one's right hand for consonants that don't begin a syllable.
Consonants, that come before a vowel. Yet, the right side does not include a complete alphabet.
What is it missing? If I don't know, then nobody does (else, I could look it up somewhere).
Answer: chqvwy

In addition, y tends to be, I notice, represented as 'i', phonetically, in the dictionary.
also, v tends to be represented as 'f', again phonetically, in the dictionary.

So that leaves: chqw

As for the 'q', there is, for example, "TO*EBG": "toque", and I know that 'BG' is a 'k'.
The point is, am I right to infer that one uses one's right hand for consonants that don't begin
a syllable. And this question comes of my simple attempt to come up with a logical stroke
for 'apple', and 'apples'.


This is some thinking out loud, I don't know what it may have been like for the former beginners--I feel, that if I'm dismissing the entire dictionary as useless, tending towards counterproductive, then maybe I'm doing something wrong?

What's the way to stroke 'apple', which would be logical for me to stroke hundreds of other words
according to the same principles? I get that we omit 'schwa'. Why couldn't I have guessed, on the
fly, how to stroke 'apple'? At what point, does it become simply lots of memorization, like learning to speak Swahili. I'd like to memorize some principles that perhaps admit of the occasional exception. At this stage, I'm not aware of an example of such a principle in Steno theory. Else, how do we code 'apple' and 'apples'?

Currently, I'm leaning towards this:
Apple:
Syllabic: A-P/L
Phonetic: A-PL

Why doesn't that work?

To review, I might pronounce 'apple' like this: ap-uh l

Then, how to stroke it phonetically? I mean, assume that it's the only word in the dictionary, there are no conflicts, what are the principles?

[mau.bustamante]

I'll start off by saying that there are still many things that I don't understand about the Plover dictionary. I chalk this up to years of entering words in a rush in a live captioning environment.

Having said that, there are some general patterns that it follows and I've learned to trust Plover's grammar in most instances.

As you said, yes, the right hand deals with the ending sounds of a syllable or word, while the left hand does the beginning. The concept to keep in mind is that not only can each hand represent a letter or sound, but also sometimes they represent a certain beginning/ending form.

To illustrate the point, let us consider the word "suck".

The left hand is fairly obvious, S. The vowel is also pretty straightforward, U. The right hand is -BG, which corresponds to the sound of K, as per the alphabet chart.

Simple. Now consider the word "sucks".

Again, the left hand is obvious, S. The vowel is also the same, U. It follows that the right hand is -BGS... Suction
"Wtf! It's just like suck, but with an S at the end... Shouldn't that spell sucks?" The trick here is that the -BGS ending is used to construct the endings of -x and -ction if it exists as a valid word. There are a couple of other ending forms, such as -GS being for -shon endings like in fusion; -FL for -ful; -PBS for -ness. So it's not always a straight letter by letter construction. You can find more in the Plover cheat sheet.
http://stenoknight.com/wiki/Plover_Cheat_Sheet

Play around with different starting letters and vowels to see what kind of words you can make by adding an S to -BG and -G endings. You'll find that some are translated in the phonetic ending form when it exists while others behave more orthographically as the letters that are typed.

left -BG -BGS -GS
TPA FAQ fax fashion
SU suck suction suggestion
TPU fuck function fusion
PWU buck bucks bugs
OE oak observation ocean
RAOE reek reaction region

"Fine, so how do I type sucks?"
This brings me to the idea of using Plover's grammar rules to your advantage. There are endings that will attach to whatever is behind it, such as -S for plurals.
bag + -S -> bags
car + -S -> cars
horse + -S -> horses
class + -S -> classes
Plover is set up to recognize the ending of the last word that was used to type the correct plural ending, between -s and -es.
"sucks", then, would be typed like "suck" (SUBG) and then -S as a separate stroke.

When it comes to the word apple, there are many ways to type it. I prefer the AP/-L simply because it's easiest. Note that "apples" works if you type AP/-L/-S or APLS because there's no such word as "ams".

Periods have a bunch of definitions in the dictionary. I've always just assumed that this is due to two things 1) two different conventions, -FPLT and TP-PL and 2) all the other variations are just misstrokes that were corrected into the dictionary.
Personally, I opt for -FPL for periods and -RBG for commas. I find those briefs work well enough for me and they only take three keys each.

Btw, the letter W doesn't appear on the right side because that sound can be written with the vowel letters (eg. Low being typed as HROE). I think H on the right side is omitted for the same reason.

Anyway, that's enough rambling. I hope my post has helped to clarify my understanding of the structure and reasoning of the Plover dictionary. Keep up the hard work. You'll get the hang of it sooner than you might think.

[DanLanglois]

This is very helpful. Thanks! Meanwhile, I've focused a bit on the Plover lessons, about vowels, consonants, syllables, to get up to speed better, w/the general theory. I'm not discouraged. I do, however, have some more notes:

From Lesson 1:
http://plover.stenoknight.com/2010/07/t ... aphic.html

There is this:
O - as in got or knoll (it's 'o' in got, and 'oh' in knoll)

But later, there is this:
OE - as in boat or grown

It appears, that it's an OE in knoll, and not an O. This point is consistent
with dict.json:
"TPHOEL": "knoll",


Then, here is the list of vowels:
A - a as in apple, can, hat but also ah as in arm, father and also, it can be schwa as in about
O - o as in odd, hot, waffle
E - Seems like this is e as in ever, head, get (in contradiction to the page, which gives examples, 'as in let, pert(?), or *defy*')
U - uh as in up, mother, mud but also it can be the sound in good, book, put (I assume, that
this is only 'U' when it's spelled with a 'u')
EU -i
AEU - ey
AOE - ee
AOU - oo
AOEU - ahy (noting that this is mislabled 'AOEI')
OEU - oi
AU - aw
OU - ou
OE - oh
OEU - "oy" or "oi" diphthong

Then, this:
AO - spelling differentiator, oa or oo
AE - spelling differentiator, ea or ae

Fine. Example: Zoo: ZAO
Okay. although, ZAO is not in the dictionary as 'zoo'. That would be STPSKWAO. It's not mapped.
I'll let it go..

Then, I guess my only remaining question is about E - as in let, pert, or defy.
Specifically, 'pert'. The 'pert' example is a bit of a disturbing one, because 'ur' is a very common sound, early, bird, stirring.

Now, 'pert' is in dict.json as 'PERT'. 'early' is
"*ER/HREU": "early",
"ER/HREU": "early",
"ERL": "early",
"ERL/HREU": "early",

'bird' is
"PWEURD": "bird",

'stirring' is
"STEUR/-G": "stirring",
"STEURG": "stirring",

I'm sorely tempted here, to suggest 'UR', for all these cases where the stroke is 'EUR'. Because,
ur is the sound anyways. And also, UR could be in 'early'. That is, 'ER' can be er and one can
use UR for 'ear' as in 'early'. Also:
"KAEUFL": "careful",
"KWAEUFL": "careful",

The 'r' is omitted, here. I don't get it. There's even an EU for 'i', in these
examples, then why not 'KAEURFL'.

And, for 'early', why not UR/HRAOE.

I can see that it'll be troublesome for somebody else to try to follow my idiosyncratic
thoughts, here, and this is just vowels (which didn't I think, actually go so badly), I probably will
have some issues w/consonants, too

[stenoknight]

This is very helpful. Thanks! Meanwhile, I've focused a bit on the Plover lessons, about vowels, consonants, syllables, to get up to speed better, w/the general theory. I'm not discouraged. I do, however, have some more notes:

From Lesson 1:
http://plover.stenoknight.com/2010/07/t ... aphic.html

There is this:
O - as in got or knoll (it's 'o' in got, and 'oh' in knoll)

But later, there is this:
OE - as in boat or grown

It appears, that it's an OE in knoll, and not an O. This point is consistent
with dict.json:
"TPHOEL": "knoll",

Yeah, as I mentioned in the Steno 101 lesson, the way Plover's theory handles single vowels is by spelling, whereas it handles diphthongs phonetically. This isn't true in theories like Phoenix, which are more straight-up phonetic. It's interesting that TPHOEL is the definition for knoll in the dictionary. I should have checked before I wrote the lesson, definitely, but I'm pretty sure that's a legacy entry (i.e., from either the NYCI dictionary or the StenEd dictionary, both of which I folded into my own dictionary) and not one of my own definitions. I'd still probably write it TPHOL, regardless of pronunciation. But that's me; other stenographers certainly feel differently, and you're free to redefine it to suit your own inclinations.

AOEU - ahy (noting that this is mislabled 'AOEI')

Thanks for noticing that! Fixed. (':

Fine. Example: Zoo: ZAO
Okay. although, ZAO is not in the dictionary as 'zoo'. That would be STPSKWAO. It's not mapped.
I'll let it go..

Yeah, that's an issue with Z. I learned Z as S*, and most of my dictionary is defined that way, but when I changed over from left hand alphabet + FPLT for fingerspelling to left hand alphabet + *, I had to figure out a new way to write Z, so I changed it to STKPW. Didn't wind up propagating that change throughout the dictionary, though maybe I should try writing a script to do that.

Then, I guess my only remaining question is about E - as in let, pert, or defy.
Specifically, 'pert'. The 'pert' example is a bit of a disturbing one, because 'ur' is a very common sound, early, bird, stirring.

Yup, like I said; single vowels are differentiated by spelling. So "purr" is PUR, but "per" is PER, and "pirenzepine" is PEUR/EPBZ/PAOEUPB. Similarly, because EU usually stands in for short y, "pyramidal" is PEUR/PH*EULD. (*EULD is often used for ^iddle)

I'm sorely tempted here, to suggest 'UR', for all these cases where the stroke is 'EUR'. Because,
ur is the sound anyways. And also, UR could be in 'early'. That is, 'ER' can be er and one can
use UR for 'ear' as in 'early'.

If that's the way your brain works, you might want to check out Phoenix theory. I use spelling a lot when I write steno, so if you'd rather have a more purely phonetic experience, Plover theory might not be your thing.

Also:
"KAEUFL": "careful",
"KWAEUFL": "careful",

The 'r' is omitted, here. I don't get it. There's even an EU for 'i', in these
examples, then why not 'KAEURFL'.

KAEURFL would be a great stroke for careful. Makes perfect logical sense. I just happen to write KAEUFL 'cause it's a brief I learned early on in steno school.

Thanks for the input! It really helps me understand what it's like to be tackling this stuff as a beginner. Unfortunately starting with my working dictionary instead of a standardized logical teaching dictionary means that misstrokes, idiosyncracies, briefs, and other expedient entries wind up causing a lot of unnecessary confusion. Sadly, I don't know of any dictionaries that are 100% logical and phonetic and also contain the majority of words most people want to use. A typical steno dictionary is built piece by piece, little by little, often in the heat of transcription, and a lot of weird dross gets thrown in there along with the comprehensible stuff.

[stenoknight]

From dict.json:

apple
A*EPL
AP/*L

apples
A*PL/-S
A*PLS
AP/-LS

Ha! Yep, you found one of my dictionary's weak spots. Apple is a tough one. The strict theory way to write it would be AP/*L, since *L is the ^le suffix, but I often want to write it in one stroke. Trouble is, there's also "am", "a.m.", "amp", "ambi", and Apple (the company and/or Beatles label). So since the asterisk isn't enough to differentiate all the potential one-strokers, I usually call in vowel differentiation and write it AEPL.

And, although I had already given up, there is this, to parse:
"A*PL/KPAOURT": "Apple Computer",
"A*PL/KPAOUT/*ER": "Apple Computer",
"A*EPL/A*EPL": "Apple",
"A*PL/A*PL": "Apple",
"AP/*L/PWAOE": "Appleby",

A lot of these are legacy entries. The two-stroker in particular -- A*EPL/A*EPL -- is a common way for old-fashioned court reporters to resolve conflicts that I'm not a fan of, and use only when absolutely necessary.

So, why not have the steno stroke for 'apple' be, well, what would be logical here?
Syllabic: A-P/L
Phonetic: A-PL

A-PL is fine if you've got something else for "am". I often just use "PL". A-P/L would be okay too, though personally I like to throw in the asterisk on suffix strokes. But that makes it a two-stroke word, and you might prefer to have it as a one-stroker.

BTW, it turns out that -PL is 'M'. Except, that -PL is not 'M'.
I mean, it is, according to lesson 2: http://plover.stenoknight.com/2010/08/s ... n-two.html.
However, in dict.json, I see this:
"-PL": "{.}",

Yup. Lots of misstrokes for {.}, because it's used so often and you really want it to come out write when you're writing realtime at 240 words per minute. Definitely less important for non-professionals. (':

So okay, leaving that aside, under some circumstances, -PL is 'M'. But, that's okay.
So I'm still plumping for this:
Apple:
Syllabic: A-P/L
Phonetic: A-PL

By all means define them that way if they feel right under your fingers! That's what steno is all about.

I'd kind of inferred, that one uses one's right hand for consonants that don't begin a syllable.
Consonants, that come before a vowel. Yet, the right side does not include a complete alphabet.
What is it missing? If I don't know, then nobody does (else, I could look it up somewhere).
Answer: chqvwy

CH is FP
V is F*
Q is BG (aka K)
W and Y aren't used because at the ends of words they're basically vowels.

In addition, y tends to be, I notice, represented as 'i', phonetically, in the dictionary.
also, v tends to be represented as 'f', again phonetically, in the dictionary.

So that leaves: chqw

As for the 'q', there is, for example, "TO*EBG": "toque", and I know that 'BG' is a 'k'.
The point is, am I right to infer that one uses one's right hand for consonants that don't begin
a syllable. And this question comes of my simple attempt to come up with a logical stroke
for 'apple', and 'apples'.

Yup. TOEBG = toke. TO*EBG = toque. Just because "toke" seems more common than "toque" to me. The rarer word gets the asterisk.

This is some thinking out loud, I don't know what it may have been like for the former beginners--I feel, that if I'm dismissing the entire dictionary as useless, tending towards counterproductive, then maybe I'm doing something wrong?

Nah, just feel free to rearrange it so it makes sense to you!

What's the way to stroke 'apple', which would be logical for me to stroke hundreds of other words
according to the same principles?

Hahaha, of all the words you decided to start out with, you had to choose "apple", didn't you? Might as well have chosen "surf" or "zinc" or "lunch"! (';

(Happy to explain why those are particularly tricky words in steno, but I'll let you ponder them first.)

Currently, I'm leaning towards this:
Apple:
Syllabic: A-P/L
Phonetic: A-PL

Go for it!

But see above for potential conflicts, like "am", "amp", "a.m.", et cetera.

Then, how to stroke it phonetically? I mean, assume that it's the only word in the dictionary, there are no conflicts, what are the principles?

AP/*L

[DanLanglois]

Thanks! So much. I guess it's okay for the dictionary to be a bit overwhelming, at first glace--I basically feel that I'm doing well, at just getting started. I'll have the alphabet strokes into my muscle memory pretty soon, I think--I wrote about wanting to see where I get in four months, optimistically assuming that I put in consistent practice. I'm thinking that 40wpm would be hardly impressive as a steno speed, lots of upside potential, but it's a practical milestone.

[DanLanglois]

A question, what about negative forms, like unseen, impossible.
Unmask, uninvited, unimportant. There is this:

"UPB/SAOEPB": "unseen",

"*EUPL/POB": "impossible",
"EUPL/POB": "impossible",

"UPB/PORPB": "unimportant",

A 'n', or an 'm', might, in a lot of cases, serve as a prefix. Above, I see 'UPB/' for 'un-'.
Also:
"KWRUPB": "{un^}",
"UB": "{un^}",
"UFPB": "{un^}",
"UPB": "{un^}",

I'm tempted to modify each of the words in the dictionary, that have
'-em', '-im, '-um', and '-en', '-in', '-un'. I'm considering especially, when the word
already exists, and we're trying to make its opposite. The cheatsheet, here:
http://stenoknight.com/wiki/Plover_Cheat_Sheet

This gives out, that 'in' is the output for TPH, and PH. While, typing 'EUPB' (prefix stroke)
will result in misplaced word boundary. I figure I've got a solution for that (use -PB for 'in-').
I was going to add, that couldn't 'TPH' be 'in', because it is 'n', anyways, but then I realize that this
is where we started. 'in' is the output for TPH. Check.




I have a similar question about this kind of thing:
"KW*EURBG": "quicker",
"KWEUBG/*ER": "quicker",
"KWEUBLG/*ER": "quicker",
"SHROE/*ER": "slower",
"SHROER": "slower",

Could use just an '/*R'.

I wonder what is 'cheapest', what is 'broadest'.
"KHAOEP/EFT": "cheapest",
"PWRAUD/EFT": "broadest",
"SAOPB/EFT": "soonest",
"EFLT": "{^est}",
"EFT": "{^est}",
Eh?! But there is an 'S', on the keyboard. What's this 'F' stuff?

Also, this is not listed as one of the 'ending sounds':
http://stenoknight.com/wiki/Plover_Cheat_Sheet

And then, this one is different:
"STRAEUPB/-PBLG/*ES": "strangest",
"STRAEUPB/SKWR*ES": "strangest",
"STRAEUPB/SKWREFT": "strangest",
"STRAEUPBG/*ES": "strangest",

And, I wonder about 'truest', 'busiest'.
This one is 'different':
"TRAOU/*ES": "truest",

Then there's this:
"PW-Z/KWREUFT": "busiest",
"PWEUS/KWREFT": "busiest",
"PWEUZ/KWR*ES": "busiest",
"PWUS/KWREFT": "busiest",

Which we can attempt to collate with this:
"PW-Z": "busy",
"PWEUS/KWREU": "busy",
"PWEUZ/KWREU": "busy",
"PWEUZ/S*EU": "busy",
"PWEUZ/SEU": "busy",

An almost perfect mess. 'KWREU' is for {^y}, then what is 'FT'? It may have started out being EFT for '-est', until
the 'e' got 'already used'..except, really, one might be able to afford a third stroke here, it's three syllables?
So, we start with something like 'PWEUS', which is 'business', and add KWREFT, which is, apparently, -iest. For some reason,
that entails the need to use an 'F' to represent an 'S', although, there is an 'S' on the keyboard--is it broken?
Now, I suppose, that t and s might be hard to hit together, especially with a pinky finger. I might accept that as
an answer, but I'm asking. Also, KWREFT for -iest is not listed in 'ending sounds':
http://stenoknight.com/wiki/Plover_Cheat_Sheet

If I approach this phonetically, I figure that 'busy' is bizee. And, ee is the familiar AOE. There's a z
on the keyboard, too, so how hard can this get? PWEUZ/AOE. And then 'busiest' could be..? I like that *ES that I see, here,
but I'm still considering alternatives. ST would be an alternative, if it wasn't under some kind of cloud,
as a combination that people refuse to make? (see above) One might offer that 'busy' is PWEUZ/EU, where EU is 'i', and 'y' is a kind of 'i', and we represent single vowels this way. But that's still not what's found in the dictionary. Um.

Also, these, strike me as not being consistent:
"TPUL/EFT": "fullest",
"TRAOU/*ES": "truest",

Also, there's all this stuff like:
"TPREUL/HREU": "frilly",
"TPREUS/-BG/HREU": "friskily",
"TPRAOUT/-LS/HREU": "fruitlessly",

If I accept EU for 'y', and HREU for 'ly', then should these suffixes be *HREU? Same here:
"TKPWAPBG/HREU/A": "ganglia",

I mean, if I'm asking whether I need an asterisk, the answer might be that I just need to make up my mind..?
And, etc., like what about this one: "TUR/PWOE/KHARPBLG/-D": "turbocharged",

I'm also getting into some matters like, well, if GS is for -tion, and you make 'description' with a PGS,
and 'describe' with a B, then maybe we put something in for 'describe-tion'.
And, 'psychology-ist'. 'psychology-ic'. 'psychology-ize'.

The more general idea, is, to criticize--I mean, no--the more general idea is, is this to be memorized, this material? If there are underlying principles governing the formation of the strokes, then nothing is arbitrary. There is always a reason why.